Hi fellow dads,

This week has been a life-changing one for me. I've just started giving a life skills course to people on parole. Most of these people are battling a heroin problem.

As we discussed in class, one of the major issues that came out was how difficult these people found it to conform. When we dug deeper, we found that most of them had severe problems accepting what their parents (or other authority figures) ordered them to do. And guess what. This often happened because the "parent" gave orders without giving a justification.

So here's what I'd like us to discuss. Does it make sense to expect our kids to follow our instructions and orders to the letter, simply by virtue of our being their parents?

And if they do, how does that impact their self-esteem, self-image, creativity and autonomy?

I've written more about this topic on my blog, but I'd really love to hear your opinions on this. Fire away!

Communication is important, but also HOW you communicate is essential. Example, how do you get a child to behave, or "conform."

If you get him to sit quietly in church by telling him to sit down and shut up or he's going to "get it" after church, then you are parenting by fear. I believe that kid is gonna be aggressive, have low self-esteem, and will bully others whenever he is physically able.

But how about getting him to sit quietly by explaining it's not polite to be loud and disturb the service. Being rude will lead to having to leave the service and perhaps lost privileges. (TV time, allowance, whatever. We use "going to Steak-n-Shake afterwards as our "carrot" if you will.)

It's still "fear," of something lost, but it's not fear of the parent. The parent didn't "cause" the punishment, choosing bad behavior caused it. It works even better when you can tie it DIRECTLY to the behavior. (If you throw that toy, you can't play with it anymore. It's immediate, and applies directly to that action/situation. Apply it to EVERY toy thrown, and toys will eventually stop getting thrown.)

Consistency is EXTREMELY important, especially with toddlers. They need to know what to expect from you, or you'll never know what to expect from them.

I'd be willing to bet those taking your course who find it difficult to conform, have been told what to do in their lives "aggressively" rather than rationally. Kids who grow up in "tough love" homes often become abusive to their spouses. Why? Surprise! This is "normal" to them.

Disclaimer: I've been at this about 4 and half years... so far so good. (Without parenting by fear.) The rationalizing and explaining has gotten MUCH more effective as he has gotten older. You simply cannot reason with a 2 year old, they do not have the capacity to understand. (Which is also why fear parenting isn't effective for 2 year olds either.) Cause and Effect isn't a concrete concept. So they'll just fear the parent all the time, no matter what's happening.

So to directly answer your question: "Does it make sense to expect our kids to follow our instructions and orders to the letter, simply by virtue of our being their parents? And if they do, how does that impact their self-esteem, self-image, creativity and autonomy?"

YES. But, "Because I said so," or "Because I'm the Dad" isn't going to fly for anything truly important. When he started asking, "Why," is when we started explaining the reasons behind our instructions/directions/rules etc. Learning that they can control their actions, and the consequences of those actions, I feel, will be a positive influence on their self worth.

I couldn't agree more with what you have written. It was in fact exactly what I was driving at. One of the guys in my group said it outright. His dad was absent for the first 24 years of his life, and NOW he wants to tell him how to do things! Not gonna happen!

In my inexpert opinion (I'm only just a fledgling father), if I want my kid to behave like an adult, I must communicate with him with the same rationale that I would use to speak to an adult. So, if I want him to do something, I need to give him the "life lesson" behind it. Because seriously, "I don't have time to explain" just doesn't cut it anymore. If I don't have time for my son, what do I have time for?

Parent son relationships should be based on the same foundation that adults build relationships on. That is:

1. Make a connection


2. Build trust through meaningful actions


3. Establish authority based on trust


4. Impart instruction based on trust and authority


5. Explain motivation

I can never expect anyone, even my son, to follow my instructions unless I have established trust and a degree of authority first. And unless I provide the reasons behind my instructions, I will only get so far.

And after all, there almost always is a lesson behind every instruction, and there's no better time to impart wisdom than through practical application.

I'll play devil's advocate here. I agree with your statements 1-4 completely, but I would put an asterisk next to #5 and here's why. I've seen a lot of kids raised to feel entitled to an explanation or justification from parents on discipline matters. In most cases I find that these kids also feel like this is an invitation to debate. These kids are much more likely to get "stuck" in the disciplinary moment, to drag it out, argue, pout and be miserable. They have a hard time transitioning and moving on. Despite the constant explanations offered, they still tend to see the world as unfair. And this carries over to the school environment.

I think a less democratic approach can sometimes lead to a kid that can take a "no" and get on with it. If I've done 1-4 well enough as a parent, they should know that #5 is based on my judgement of what is best for their well being. More authority sometimes leads to a healthier relationship with authority.

That makes a lot of sense Clay. Of course, I'm only just starting out as a father, so what I say is based on my experience and study of my interactions with other people. But I'm really looking forward to a time when I can communicate more effectively with my son. I've got some many things I want to teach him. Thing is, what I want and what he wants might be diametrically opposed

One thing I definitely wanna get into is "Transactional Analysis". It looks like a very interesting topic. It was mentioned to me by my coaching partner who helps me out with the life skills seminar. He's a very experienced trainer who has worked with educators, people of all ages and even coached inmates in jails. I need to get a couple of books and I'll report back here