The Labs theme this week on DadLabs is Bedtime routines, so I thought we should kick off a thread all about the trials and tribulations of getting a good sleep routine started. What have been your struggles? Do you have any ideas or solutions? Any sleep deprived calls for help? What works, and what has you pacing the floor at three a.m.?

Honestly, I tell people that God knew I could handle twins IF I could get my sleep! Because truely, we have had very few problems in the sleep department. Our girls have been sleeping through the night (10-12 hour stretches) since they were 4 months old. I FULLY agree with Daddy Clay though in the vid, I'm not a huge fan of either type of 'sleep training' or lack thereof, I'm a huge fan of doing whatever works to get the most sleep for everyone in your family!<br><br>I would say that we kind of do the Ferber meathod, but not entirely. For the most part we just have very easy babies. I wish I had some awesome advice for those struggling with their kids at 3am, but I'll sort of give a run down of what we do in case we're accidently doing something right.<br><br>The first 3 months with my girls was truly the most difficult time in my life. They were 6 weeks premature and spent 2 weeks in the NICU, and didn't nurse at all for the first 2 months so I was pumping and supplimenting with formula (I only had enough milk for 1.5 babies). So every feeding I was trying to nurse, then bottle feeding, then pumping so I'd have milk to give them next time. It took about an hour or more each time to do the full shebang, and then 2 hours later I'd do it again. We were all camped out in the living room so that I had easy access to bottles and formula and such in the middle of the night. I was sleeping on the couch (if you could call it sleeping). At 2 months old they finally were able to latch on, so things got a lot easier, but I still had to suppliment with formula and I still pumped. But we kept a STRICT feeding schedule because we were so worried about growth and praying they wouldn't have to go back to the hospital, things that most parents probably don't even think about if their little one didn't have to be in the NICU. So we were waking THEM up for most of this time so they would eat, and I was setting alarms so that I would wake up.<br><br>At their 3 month appointment we finally got the OK from the Dr. to feed on queue instead of every 3 hours. But now that they were accustomed to eating every 3 hours that's when they'd demand to eat, which was fine by me and it was super predictable which was nice. They started stretching out their night feedings all on their own. Soon I was feeding at 1am instead of midnight, and then at 4am instead of 3, etc. And then after a couple weeks I was only doing 1 night feeding at 2am and then they'd sleep till 6am. Everything just kept gradually stretching out until at 4 months old they were sleeping from 10pm-8:30am.<br><br>Over time they've started sleeping even longer at night as they've dropped naps. Now at 15 months old they only take 1 nap a day and they sleep at night from around 7:30pm-9am.<br><br>I think there are some basic things that we do that has made this a lot easier. We have a very steady routine. We feed them at the same times every day, and they nap at the same time, and go to bed and wake up at the same time. I think that if you're having trouble a good place to start is when they wake up in the morning. If they're sleeping till 11am and not going to bed till midnight then an easy place to start is to wake them up earlier in the morning so that they'll be more tired in the evening and more willing to go down at a reasonable hour. Also, we NEVER let our girls nap later than 3:30pm. If it's 3:30 and they're still asleep then we go wake them up. It's not reasonable to expect that a child is going to be ready for bed at 7pm when they've napped till 4pm. We also keep our girls very active during the day so that they're tired by the time it's either nap or bed time.

Also, when it is bedtime we have a set group of activities that lets them know that we're winding down for the day. We give them baths, put them in their pajamas, read them stories, give them bottles, and then carry them up to bed where we pray for them and kiss them goodnight. There are some nights when they fuss about being put down, but we know that they have dry bottoms, full tummys, and that they're not injured in any way. And over time you learn the difference between an I'm fussy and cranky cry and an I've just fallen and hurt myself! cry. There's a BIG difference! If my girls haven't quieted down in 5 minutes then I go back in and do what I can to calm them, but I seriously can count the number of times that's happened on one hand (like I said, I have easy babies).<br><br>Recently at 15 months old the girls have been sick. I FULLY expected that I would get that 3am wake up cry due to not being able to sleep because of stuffy noses or whatever. But it never happened! Which is wonderful both for me and for them because we're ALL getting the sleep we need to get healthy and feel better.<br><br>All of this to say, I know my situation is not the same as say a mom who is breastfeeding exclusively and is feeding on demand and co-sleeping. I have nothing against doing this, part of me wishes that had been possible for me too! But with 2 babies at once and their feeding/growth issues I had to do what was best for my girls and that meant bottle feeds and strict routines, which I'm sure lead down the path to much easier sleep habits.

Thanks for this account, Amy. Gave me flashbacks of my oldest -- he was a preemie, born at 31 weeks. We spent 3 weeks in the NICU. When we came home, we were very focused on the schedule -- and getting feeding to work on its own. All the other kids seemed so much easier in comparison (even if it was still tough), that we were more thankful than stressed.

Amy,<br><br>I think you probably should have started your post by saying:<br><br>WARNING ! Do NOT Read This If You Are Unsure About Having Kids!

ha ha! Sorry! I know I totally wrote a novel, obviously it's a topic I'm interested and I'm glad it didn't kill the whole thread. <br><br>Hopefully it doesn't also kill someone's desire to reproduce!

We've had it really easy. Duncan just decided to sleep through the night at 2 1/2 months and stuck with it. We took him camping twice this summer. He woke up 2 out of five nights and three of the nights were spent a block from a busy freight rail line! We have some things just in case he latches onto a security device, but so far he's not needed anything. I'm sure it'll have some down moments in the future.<br><br>Since I'm home with him all day, my wife uses her 4B formula to spend time with him and put him to sleep. Bath, Bottle, Book and Bed. He usually falls asleep somewhere in the middle of the bottle, though.

Don't jinx it -- toddler years can be a bit tougher. But congrats on having a good sleeper!

We're very structured with our little guy - into the bath around 7:30; out of the bath, into jammies, & reading books shortly after 8 p.m.; drink of cold water & say goodnight to all of the stuffed animal friends, then into bed right around 8:30. Sometimes working a little late, errands, dinner plans or such throw things off a bit, but we're pretty consistent, even on weekends.<br><br>We have a tiny Timex alarm clock/noise machine perched in the nearby windowsill to waft a ocean wave sound to help lull him to sleep. And he has a little Fisher-Price Waterfall Soother in the crib that provides a dim light and some soothing music. And he's got his Glo-Worm. Most importantly, he's gotta have one of his blankets - he has several to choose from and each night he makes a new selection.<br><br>He'll usually chatter or sing to himself for the first few minutes after we put him in bed, but he usually nods off fairly quickly. We have heavy curtains so that even when it's still slightly light out, his room is dark and we close the door to block out light & noise from the rest of the house.

Always love the sound of the kid in his bed chatting/singing himself to sleep. That's the good stuff.

Two words: Celine Dione.<br><br>No joke. My little brother bought a Celine Dione CD for our daughter (I think it's called Miracles), and we put it on almost every night as our pumpkin goes to sleep.<br><br>Also, Daddy Brad, I totally hear what you are saying about the books. Our daughter's bed is absolutely loaded up with books. She's got a full library in there. She reads (views) to herself at night as she falls asleep, and in the morning, she'll read quietly for a little while before yelling and screaming at us to come get her. The funniest thing is when we go in to check on her after she falss asleep and we find her conked out with a book lying on her face!

Another great reason to take the kids to Vegas! Oh wait. Is she still playing there? Oh, well, like you *need* another reason to take the kids to Vegas.

I don't know if she is still playing in Vegas or not, but I DO know that when she originally arrived in Vegas the casino constructed a completely custom video display wall which was considered to be the largest high definition TV in the world. (I remember reading about in one of my trade magazines). Megalomania anyone?<br><br>Also, notice how I oh-so-casually mentioned that my BROTHER is the one who purchased the CD....

Be careful in Vegas if you feel you have enough kids... I now know the true meaning of the phrase, Vegas Baby!

Our small fry has also been a good sleeper. *knocks on wood* His pacifier (binky) is the biggest soother, but he does have a really soft blanket that he tends to grab and snuggle up to on his own. (He's 8 months old.) We are working towards getting him out of our bed and into his crib. We are also hoping to remove the binky during the day and only use it for bedtime... and perhaps eventually remove it all together... but that might be a bigger battle.<br><br>He has been a super easy baby for the first 8 months. It's God's way of tricking us into the second one. I told my wife, if she could guarantee the next one would be like this, we could go to the hospital right now and pick it up.

Man, I hate to be the one to say it, but I am SO jealous of all of you guys who have such easy sleepers. My son is the polar opposite. He's 21 months old & rarely sleeps 100% through the night. He was a terrible sleeper from day 1. It was very hard since I bf exclusively for the first 7 months & felt like I never got more than an hour of sleep at a time. He would wake up about every other hour for the first few months. & then finally slept longer starting around 4 months.<br>He actually did sleep through the night for about a 2 month break when he was just around a year old, but rarely since then.<br><br>I've asked a bunch of people what to do, but most of them say we're doing everything right & he's just not a great sleeper. It's usually just a need for comfort from mom/dad for just a few seconds. Maybe a cry because he ca't find his paci (even though I've put 2 in the crib), maybe because he's just wanting me to hold him. It's really hard on us some nights when he gets up 3-4 times or more. (Last night, only twice, yea?)<br><br>We have a very good routine: dinner, play, snack, bath, books, bed. He usually goes to sleep easily, he just doesn't stay down the entire night. We have soft music playing & a heartbeat aound machine thing too. He has several comfort snuggly items in his crib as well that he uses.<br><br>We've tried to let him cry it out/Ferber (checking on him every once in a while), however that only seemed to work when he was younger. It doesn't work anymore. (He'll cry for an hour straight if we don't hold him.)<br><br>Any suggestions on what we're doing wrong? <br><br>(I was told he's too young for a shot of Jack at night...LOL!!! JK!)

This isn't a suggestion per se, but just an observation to make me look smart...<br><br>I read somewhere that *all* adults, kids and babies have a partial awakening every couple hours at night so that the body can check it's comfort, temperature and surroundings before going in to the next phase of sleep. For babies, this supposedly happens every 90 minutes. Sure enough, I started noticing that our 20 mo. daughter has started to give one very short cry out out approximately every 90 minutes, but then she immediately goes back to sleep.<br><br>So I think the waking up every couple hours is normal and expected, it's the not going back to sleep part that is unusual.

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it but unfortunately that's not the issue in his case.<br>Yeah, the little wake-ups are normal & we wouldn't go in for that. He is usually fully awake, standing up at the side of his crib crying. When he was younger, he did do a lot of those little stirs, but there is a huge difference between his little checks & waking fully up.<br>I wish I knew how to get him to just comfort himself without always needing us to come in. He's got his 'loveys', yet still needs us.

well, we were having a really good time of it until last night.<br><br>sleep has never really been an issue, 7:30 is pajama time and she knows exactly what to do, pajamas, teeth brushin', then stories with dad. we do a really bad thing and let her have a bottle right before bed, but make sure to get it out of there so she's not clinging to it all night (that bottle thing is about to change though)<br><br>however, last night our darling woke up at 9:30 screaming bloody murder, mama got her into bed with her and all seemed well.<br><br>for a while...<br><br>at 1 she woke up again, screaming like somebody was cutting off her toes, nothing was calming her down, this went on for two hours, i finally cut on some cartoons and that calmed her down a bit, but i HATE using that as a tactic, tv isn't any kind of answer, it just puts her in a daze.<br><br>good lord i'm tired this morning.

well, we were having a really good time of it until last night.<br><br>sleep has never really been an issue, 7:30 is pajama time and she knows exactly what to do, pajamas, teeth brushin', then stories with dad. we do a really bad thing and let her have a bottle right before bed, but make sure to get it out of there so she's not clinging to it all night (that bottle thing is about to change though)<br><br>however, last night our darling woke up at 9:30 screaming bloody murder, mama got her into bed with her and all seemed well.<br><br>for a while...<br><br>at 1 she woke up again, screaming like somebody was cutting off her toes, nothing was calming her down, this went on for two hours, i finally cut on some cartoons and that calmed her down a bit, but i HATE using that as a tactic, tv isn't any kind of answer, it just puts her in a daze.<br><br>good lord i'm tired this morning.

Good grief, that's terrible Jer. I hope for your and your wife's sake that it was an isolated event! Hopefully he's just a little sick or something and will go back to being a great sleeping baby tonight. Good luck!

Wow, tough night! I'm sorry to hear it. How old is she? Any chance it's just nightmares? Do you have a nightlight? We just got back from vacation, so sleeping in a strange place was tought the 1st 2 nights, then I put a nightlight in & that seemed to help him a lot.<br><br>Not like I know how to get a child to sleep through the night. My little man was up 3 times (as usual) last night. They were all quicky one's though (replace paci, cover back up with blanket). I just wish I knew why he can't do these things for himself. I put 2 pacifiers in the crib & he can easily get the blanket if he wants it. Of course, most of the time I think he just wants the comfort.

OH MY! It's nice to know we're not the only one's going through it. It sounds like your kids make my son's sleeping habits look good. That's scary.<br><br>My son LOVES to throw things out of the crib. We play a new game now of Oh, you didn't want your paci or bear? I guess not since you threw him on the ground. I then proceed to take away the things he threw & put them in sight, but out of reach. (I will usually give them back once I talk to him & explain that if he throws them again, they go bye-bye.) He will bawl & scream his head off when I do this, but it's starting to work. His episodes of crib tossing have slowed down dramatically in the past month.<br><br>I can certainly agree that letting a child CIO after a certain age becomes more & more difficult. Tyler can cry for hours on end. We've spent many a night just taking shifts checking on him during an on & off cry fest for 3-4 hours.<br><br>The good news for us is that he's actually slept through 2 nights this week & only woke 1 time the other night. Am I jinxing myself?

I agree with Lori, I think that after a certain age CIO doesn't work at all. I know some people who have used it on newborns.. which kind of horrifies me. Recently I had a new mom brag to me about how her 4 week old was sleeping through to the night thanks to CIO. At that age I believe they NEED nutrition in the middle of the night.. but that's just me!<br><br>I think somewhere between 4-6 months old is a good age to start the ferber method. Gentle CIO, not 2 hour stretches! That to me is just asking for a freak out frenzy.

We agree whole-heartedly. I never let my son CIO longer than 15-20 mins max without at least going in to calm him down & check on him. The hours of crying were the moments in between us constantly going in to comfort him. It's just that I refuse to let my almost 2 year old decide that he can't sleep without mommy or daddy holding him all night long. Trust me, we've done it enough times.<br><br>As for trying to CIO with a 4 week old?! That is unreal & terribly dangerous! We didn't even attempt it until Tyler was about 6 months old. Actually, looking back we probably should've done it earlier...lol.