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50/50 Debate
It's another Babyproofer/DadLabs Lounge smackdown. Two of the authors from "Babyproofing Your Marriage" stop by the lab to talk about marriage and parenting. Watch the moms and the dads duking it out. The subject: the 50/50 marriage. Is it a myth or a reality? And exactly whose idea was it, anyway? Whether you're a working dad or a stay at home father, is a 50/50 split expected? Watch these parents debate gender roles and the responsibilities of fatherhood. DadLabs Ep. 93 The Lounge.
 Daddy Clay: Welcome back to the Lounge. It’s no surprise to any parent out there that marriage and parenting has changed in the last generation or so. To help us get a sense of how us dads are doing in this changing environment we’ve brought in some experts. We have with us today in the Lounge two of the authors of Babyproofing Your Marriage. We have with us today Cathy O’Neill and Stacie Cockrell. Ladies welcome back.
Mommy Cathy: Thanks for having us.
Mommy Stacie: Thanks for having us.
Daddy Clay: I can’t believe…
Mommy Cathy: That we came back.
Mommy Stacie: Back on their turf.
Daddy Clay: …that you’d be willing to come back to the Lounge. Today we’re going to be talking a little about bit marriage and I want to start by saying that what we’re going to be talking about is the domestic parenting shared world that happens outside of the workday. So we’re talking today about that time before and after the workday, on the weekends when everybody in the family is together, whether they’ve stayed at home or they’ve gone to work and our question is, what is the expectation of that time?
Mommy Stacie: We think it should be 50/50 whether you stay at home or go to work – you know if the mom stays home or goes to work – when you hit the door we’re expecting you to take half the load. Period.
Daddy Clay: I mean, that seems like a reasonable expectation, like its fair – 50/50.
Daddy Brad: I agree.
Daddy Clay: And do you…
Mommy Cathy: God, this is going to be so easy. Who knew?
Mommy Stacie: Yeah, wow – are we done?
Daddy Clay: So do you think – how are guys doing on a 50/50 – do you think most men are succeeding in the 50/50 split.
Mommy Cathy: No, probably. Expectation is one thing, reality is quite another.
Mommy Stacie: Right.
Mommy Cathy: So definitely we’re not where we were a generation ago with our own parents, and we’re all evolving, which is great. But one of the things that Stacie and I and Julia have spoken about – what drives us crazy about our husbands is where you do – like he’ll empty a dishwasher or you might change a few diapers or you get a child dressed and you expect a standing ovation. You expect a round of applause and a gold star…
Daddy Clay: Yes.
Mommy Cathy: …where we’re looking at that and going that’s not even your fair share, you’re not even getting out of the starting blocks here.
Daddy Clay: Why not a gold star?
Mommy Cathy: Because you only get your gold star when you go above and beyond, right, the expectation.
Daddy Clay: Okay – did your dad…
Mommy Stacie: They get points deducted if they want a gold star.
Daddy Clay: …did your dad ever empty the dishwasher? I mean did he ever change a diaper; did he do those domestic things?
Mommy Cathy: No.
Mommy Stacie: No, but…
Daddy Clay: So now that I’m doing that, I empty the dishwasher I think there should be some acknowledgment. Look what you’re doing.
Mommy Stacie: Let’s look at who you’re married to today. The message is that we got from society – pretty much in the 60’s and 70’s that girls were just as good as boys in the classroom, We’re going to have a career, we’re going to go on to college, and we’re going to be in the boardrooms. So in our minds the expectation was that we were going to have a 50/50 deal with our husbands. So we get married, we walk down the aisle, we have a couple kids, we see this mountain of work in front of us – the domestic stuff – and we just look around and we’re not going to do all this.
Daddy Clay: That’s my point. So you guys have had a gender revolution.
Moms: That’s right.
Daddy Clay: And the gender revolution says that women are totally empowered to be equal to men in the workplace and when succeed in rising to that and successful in business, you get a ticker-tape friggin’ parade down the street. Look, here’s a woman, she’s Executive VP of whatever company and…the same is not true of men…I am a gender pioneer.
Daddy Brad: Absolutely.
Daddy Clay: Right?
Daddy Brad: Absolutely.
Mommy Stacie: Good for you, yea….
Daddy Clay: I’m going where no man has gone before. But, you don’t get a ticker-tape parade when you’ve been, you know – wiping your kids butt or going to the pediatrician when they’re sick or staying home from work or doing laundry. Nobody ever congratulates you for that…
Mommy Cathy: Can I just say…
Daddy Clay: People look at you and go – oh, poor dude, you’re vaginized or …
Daddy Brad: You’re going to get in trouble.
Mommy Cathy: Can I just say though in fairness to the women’s side of this. You only get a ticker-tape parade if you reach VP level, right? You have three immaculately turned out children every day, right? You run triathlons and you also know how to make perfect soufflés, right?
Mommy Stacie: And you’re a member on the booster club.
Mommy Cathy: Exactly.
Mommy Stacie: And you’re organizing the bake sale at school.
Mommy Cathy: Yu get no kudos for just being a working mother, right? You only get the slap on the back and the round of applause if you’ve all these other achievements as well.
Mommy Stacie: Society expects us…
Daddy Clay: Society - expect me, and my gold star. So, I don’t get a gold star even if I’m doing all these new things that no man did before now, all those domestic chores, taking care of the children, being involved. Not good enough, huh?
Mommy Cathy: When men are approaching domestic crap – I can say that because that’s what it is – and the child rearing part of things as a, well – this is a special favor I am doing to my wife rather than I am a fully engaged partner in this whole enterprise, we of course are going to get upset and we’re going to get resentful, we’re going to get frustrated.
Daddy Brad: I think we are fully engaged. It’s kind of like this – if you are an elite athlete and you run a marathon, no big deal. But if you are a big, fat slob and you finally get your big fat butt off the couch and run a 5K, yeah you need some recognition. That’s where guys have come – big fat slobs – running races. But I think we’re engaged and we just want a little recognition.
Mommy Stacie: There’s a lot of guys out there who just don’t get it and we’re not saying anything…these are great guys we are talking about, our husbands included. My husband would come home and say things like – why haven’t you showered in a couple days, what’s the big deal, it’s just one baby? Well, you had a couple breaks you know; didn’t you get to watch some TV or something? And he just didn’t understand. So, what we say is in Babyproofing Your Marriage is give them a training weekend – 48 hours with the baby, no 1-800-Grandma, no sitters, no calvary whatsoever and let you see how much work it is and let you see it for yourself.
Daddy Brad: DVD, Chick Fillet, pajamas all day long.
Mommy Stacie: Oh, so that’s when you do the convenience parts.
Daddy Brad: That’s okay.
Daddy Clay: What does the woman have to do? She should have to go to like, you know, go and sit in boring meetings for two days or something. You don’t get to just take a vacation. If we’re going to do a role swap and the man has to stay home and take care of the baby then the woman has to do something for 48 hours that makes a lot of money.
Mommy Cathy: What is it that you guys want? Is it just simply the recognition? I mean, do you want the recognition?
Daddy Clay: What else could we possibly want?
Daddy Brad: What could we want???
Mommy Cathy: I walked right into that. Alright, recognition to be given in the physical form which is fine.
Daddy Brad: Yes, absolutely.
Mommy Stacie: You get recognition if you understand it first. There’s a lot of men who just don’t understand it. Once you understand it and then you start taking action and taking 50% of the load, then you start getting recognition and kudos.
Daddy Brad: Does it matter how much your husband made….
Daddy Clay: Let’s say 50/50 – are you 50/50?
Daddy Brad: Absolutely.
Daddy Clay: Really?
Daddy Brad: Yeah, yeah.
Mommy Stacie: Could we call your wife and ask her?
Daddy Brad: Sure, let me get my cell phone…
Daddy Clay: I’m not really 50/50. I’m not so good on the whole shopping thing, cooking…
Daddy Brad: You’re letting us down, dude.
Daddy Clay: I know.
Mommy Stacie: How’s your sex life?
Daddy Brad: Hahaha, hey….
Mommy Cathy: What’s happening there?
Daddy Clay: So, about the shopping I’m really about a 35% so if I’m a 35, what’s a reasonable rate of return? Four percent, five percent? So if I get from 35 to 39 in the next year am I doing okay? I mean – I’m not going to get to 50 in this week.
Mommy Stacie: Let’s talk football, okay? If you’re on the 35 and you’re trying to get into your wife’s territory, you have to cross that – you have to at least meet her at that 50 yard line.
Daddy Brad: You mean if you’re trying to score?
Mommy Stacie: If you’re trying to score you’ve got to start moving the ball forward.
Daddy Brad: You need a running game, dude. You need to step it up. Alright – just throw the bomb; go ahead and just go on.
Mommy Stacie: You can hang out on the 35 but it’s kind of lonely out there.
Daddy Clay: Before we start talking about end zone celebrations here maybe here is a good place for us to take a little break.
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