Daddy Brad: Welcome to a very special edition of the lab. We are here in old town Stockholm, Sweden. And this week’s episode is brought to you by Baby Bjorn.
Daddy Clay: You know we spent a lot of our time here in Stockholm listening to folk talk to us about their paternity leave system. In this episode we give our collective responses to this interesting policy. We are here in Sweden here at the home of a father who is currently on paternity leave. We’ve been here in Sweden talking all about father issues particularly about paternity leave and all the support the Swedish system offers. There have been several members of the media who have joined us on this trip. I am here with Rob Kemp who is a freelance journalist and also on assignment for Father’s Quarterly. And also Tom Biershaw who is the publisher of the website dad.info and you know that other guy over there, Daddy Brad. Just off the top what have been your impressions?
Daddy Brad: Excellent
Rob Kemp: I was blown away.
Tom Biershaw: It made a very serious attempt here to make it possible for guys to stay at home with their kids.
Daddy Clay: Did you feel at all sort of jealous or wistful as you see what these guys get?
Tom Biershaw: Who wouldn’t like to have 6 months paid time off to look after the kids?
Daddy Clay: You know what struck me is the in the UK and also in the US there are men that do this. But they do so as a conscious decision and a great sacrifice.
Tom Biershaw: And we have been asking these guys you know how on earth did you come about doing this and they kind of look at us blankly and they are like why are you asking such weird questions. Everyone does it here.
Daddy Clay: What have you learned about what must be happening on the other end for these guys to feel so safe to do this and take this time off.
Tom Biershaw: They have obviously realized it works for them. The employers wouldn’t be doing this unless letting guys have 6 months off work paid fully or dealt out. They wouldn’t do that unless they knew not only does it works for the individual employee and his family and his home life. They get a better product to come back to them after maternity leave. I think society in general they realized that was so crucial.
Daddy Clay: But even if there was a system in place that allowed you to take the leave, I mean are there is there sort of a culture of competitiveness that would lead if you did take the time off you know that guy in the next office is going to be after your title.
Tom Biershaw: If there is any threat to your career you are going to run away from it because families depend on men’s income. Men tend to earn more than woman and so family stability tends to depend more on what the guy is earning.
Daddy Clay: Can we take any of this back and export it from Sweden to the US or the UK? What are the obstacles this kind of program faces in our home countries?
Tom Biershaw: I think in an ideal world it would be a state, it would be a government thing that was done. But I don’t think there is that kind of forward thinking because the results won’t be seen for 20 or 30 years possibly for society and the economy. So I think to begin with you would have to maybe implement it at private sector firms. I know what you are going to say. Which company? Is what I would say right now?
Rob Kemp: It’s going to take a private sector buy in from large companies that can afford it but it also going to take some incentive for the government to say okay we are going to at least level this playing field a little bit. Because things are so cut throat in business these days being-giving your competitor and leg up initially it is going to come down to getting the best talent. You are doing-you know-you are a progressive thinking company.
Tom Biershaw: Well the companies in the UK like BT, Lloyds TSB are realizing if they want to attract the best then they need to offer flexibility for the guys as well. Because the demand on those guys to be involved at home is more than it is for a generation back. If guys start accepting jobs with the companies that offer the best package. If people start demanding that. If men start saying “This is part of what I want from you as an employer.” That will start to put the pressure on the employers.
Daddy Clay: It is something that is going to take a cultural impetus. It’s going to take a political movement. It’s going to take a private sector doing its part. And so I guess one of the things we need to do is you know guys keep asking for it. And maybe you know maybe our kids having seen dad through at least somewhat more involved and we know the guys are being more involved. You know maybe their generation will be the generation that will go and demand this of their government and they will demand this of their place of work and say “Look this is of crucial importance. It is more important to who I am than anything else.”
Daddy Brad: there is nothing more valuable than a relationship with your child.
Tom Biershaw: No one ever said on their death bed “Oh I wish I had spent more time at the office.”
Daddy Brad: Well that’s all for us here in the lab.
Daddy Clay: If you’ve got some thoughts about the paternity leave system please drop us a comment, start a discussion on our community and let us know what your thoughts are. Thanks for joining us here in Stockholm.
Daddy Brad: Tak.
Daddy Clay: Tak. That means thank you in Swedish. That is all of our Swedish.